> Sources say Zaslav met one-on-one with Phillips shortly after WarnerMedia and Discovery merged in April 2022 and was open to filming in Los Angeles if the director would make the sequel at a lower price point. (The studio preferred London, where it would have cost about 20% less.) But Phillips insisted on shooting in Los Angeles, and the budget didn’t change. (A Warners spokesperson says the studio “supported the decision to film in Los Angeles” and the Zaslav-Phillips powwow was merely a meet-and-greet where they discussed what else the director wanted to make there.) Insiders say studio brass did not want to debut the film at the Venice Film Festival, as it had done five years ago with “Joker,” but Phillips pushed back. A Warners spokesperson says the studio “fully supported the decision to bring the film to Venice.”
nicolasb51942003 on
This Joker: Folie a Deux saga continues to be expanded.
eBICgamer2010 on
Michael De Luca is a funny Schrodinger executive man. Every time he’s attached to something it’s always a 50/50 dice roll to both extremes. You either get Oscar-nominated Moneyball or Razzie nominee Ghost Rider 2. Or Fifty Shade/Under the Silver Lake. Or this year, a Shogun or Joker 2.
007Kryptonian on
So Todd Phillips:
– pushed back on Gunn/Safran giving notes and would only liaise with De Luca and Abdy
– pushed back on shooting in a cheaper location
– refused to test screen the movie
– forced the Venice premiere
He legit got paid tens of millions, forced Warner to bend to his will in making an all-timer bomb then walked off into the sunset with his bag. Fucking wild lmao
The icing on top of this shit cake is Folie A Deux will likely wipe out all profit from Joker 1 on WB’s side. 2019 made like 430m+ in profit but was co-financed by Bron so half of that money walked away.
MuptonBossman on
Didn’t Todd Phillips make $20M for directing this movie? Sure seems like a lot of money for someone who wants “nothing to do” with DC…
Sisiwakanamaru on
TL;DR: Todd Phillips ego is the reason why all of these happened.
InternationalEnd5816 on
They really want to make sure people don’t associate this with DC…despite using two of the most iconic DC villains ever lmao.
They’re really putting this all on Phillips. Which isn’t surprising and not really undeserved, but someone should have stepped in. Apparently WB will be eating most of the loss since they had fewer financial partners on this film compared to the previous filml, which isn’t great considering:
>Warner Bros. is already on the back foot following a series of recent money losers,including “Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga,” “Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom” and “The Color Purple.” The parent company’s stock price remains in the cellar, near an all-time low at $7.67 a share.
Edit: fewer backers compared to the previous film, not sequel
lowell2017 on
At this point, it might make sense for Zaslav to allow Gunn to delay Superman’s release into 2026 if he wants to maintain some distance from this film.
Let the Superman & Lois TV series finishes its run and possibly move the release of Creature Commandos into 2025.
It would also make sense to pay the IRS back for the tax write-offs to finish post-production on Batgirl and release it somehow to recoup the losses coming from Joker: Folie à Deux.
If those losses are substantially big, they might as well do releases for Scoob: Holiday Haunt and Coyote Vs. Acme to help in the recouping the money.
It would be a measure of good faith from Zaslav, De Luca, Abdy, Gunn, and Safran to everyone and essentially helping the DC reboot be a blank slate with the Batgirl release closing the lid on the DCEU.
persona-non-grater on
*”…motion picture group chiefs Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy seemed unwilling to say no to their prized director with their **first** green light.”*
*”When asked by a Collider reporter if the production process changed when the pair **[Safran & Gunn]** succeeded DC head Walter Hamada or if they had any input, **Phillips** replied, “With all due respect to them, this is kind of a Warner Bros. movie.”*
*”Other battles of will between Phillips and Warners ensued. Phillips refused to test screen “Joker 2.” So its premiere in Venice marked the first time an audience saw it.”*
*“No one could get through to Todd,” says one source directly involved with the film. “And the one thing about genre stuff: If you don’t listen and pay attention to what the fan expectations are, you’re going to fail.”*
I feel like this article is confirming what ppl already picked up on. The director’s disdain for the property and him using the success of the first to bulldoze the second. But interesting to me, to note the hostility with Gunn and Safran along with the inexperience of the duo that signed off on this project.
Will this affect Todd Phillips’ career or will he get to skate on by?
littlelordfROY on
“No one could get through to Todd,” says one source directly involved with the film. “And the one thing about genre stuff: If you don’t listen and pay attention to what the fan expectations are, you’re going to fail.
Mostly a hit piece of todd Phillips, to tie the blame of the disaster. The Venice decision seems to have conflicting reports because some say WB supported this too. It still ends up the same movie and if reviews came last week, same response gets out regardless.
Interesting how variety specifically calls out zaslav’s Kevin feige approach of the singular DC vision. Joker was always a solo thing so it feels weird to tie it to the studio wanting the Feige approach. The feige approach just wouldn’t do a deconstruction like the Joker series in the first place.
TheCoolKat1995 on
And so it begins. We’re already starting to see stories from the trades about how this disaster is all Todd Phillips’ fault.
I mean, it definitely is his fault – he’s the one who decided to make “Joker 2” what it is every step of the way – but I find it kind of funny how it’s only been a few days since “Joker 2” released, and the press is already starting to toss Todd under the bus.
Warner Brothers must want to distance themselves from this movie and its director as quickly as they can.
HarlequinKing1406 on
At this point Phillips’ career is almost certainly toast. Nobody is going to let him have a big budget ever again, especially with all these behind the scenes antics.
littlelordfROY on
Article briefly mentions the lack of bradley cooper’s involvement. He ended his producing partnership with Phillips prior to Joker 2 but no reasons given
I’m not sure why his involvement would make a difference. Producer credits aren’t always about who is the most involved. But what an outcome where A Star is born ends up outgrossing a Joker sequel
This is the kind of outcome that likely ends a studio relationship. I’d be shocked if Philips makes more movies with WB. He only directed 3 movies in the last 10 years
SomerAllYear on
They could’ve hired any of us to direct Joker for $5M. We can hire Joaquin and call it a day.
infamousglizzyhands on
Todd Phillips is actually the funniest man alive actually for burning the profit the first film made and making WB more of a joke
> As the animated title-card sequence unspooled inside the iconic Hollywood cinema in the opening minutes, it became apparent that Phillips had just given DC the middle finger. There was no DC Studios logo.
Is this true? That’s kinda wild.
Street-Brush8415 on
They’d probably be better off remaking Batgirl at this point than paying back the write-off. Keep Keaton but cast Jenna Ortega as Batgirl and give Tim Burton whatever he wants to direct.
Chappie47Luna on
I’m more invested in the fall out from this movie than actually watching the movie itself lol
lenifilm on
Todd Phillips acting like he’s some serious auteur is funny. Has he seen his own filmography?
Yodudewhatsupmanbruh on
I just want him to come out and say he hated the character he made so I don’t have to keep being gaslight about some kind of grand message behind it all.
Both_Sherbert3394 on
I feel like a big problem with Hollywood in general right now is there seems to be this mentality that every movie either has to be a corporate product where they’re already animating 1/3 of it before they’ve even finalized a screenplay or chosen a director, or something where you just give out budgets to someone and let them do whatever the fuck they want with literally zero oversight or pushback. I have to imagine there’s *some* kind of middle ground here.
ZaynKeller on
Y’all are smoking crack if you don’t think Todd Phillips will be able to make Todd Phillips type movies after this.
Illustrious-Okra-524 on
Why’d you have to rope Harley into it then
Megamind66 on
Not since Rian Johnson have we seen a director so obviously hate the franchise he’s in.
MakaButterfly on
Guy took king of comedy and taxi driver and put joker over it for the 1st movie and with the luck of good word of mouth and the fact the movie was memed to death it became a surprise monster hit
Now he had the task of writing a sequel even better then the first and look what happened he can’t so he just like screw it nonsensical dance numbers and a ridiculous budget
Fuck the 1st one and people who loved the movie just let me cash my check and you can have this bloated turd 😂
garfe on
To make it clear to everybody because I know some people might misinterpret the headline
> Insiders say the duo’s glaring absence for a film that is based on one of the biggest draws in the DC canon underscores a dysfunctional dynamic that played out behind the scenes on the ill-fated Warner Bros. musical. Todd Phillips “wanted nothing to do with DC” during the making of the film, says one agent familiar with the director’s unique carve-out, which allowed him to bypass any oversight from the brand’s gatekeepers. Although Gunn has publicly supported the film on social media, Phillips has distanced himself from DC. As the animated title-card sequence unspooled inside the iconic Hollywood cinema in the opening minutes, it became apparent that Phillips had just given DC the middle finger. There was no DC Studios logo.
It’s not that he wanted nothing to do *with the film*. He wanted to do the film. This is not a Matrix 4 scenario like people think. It’s that he didn’t want any oversight from anyone higher in DC
EDIT:
> “No one could get through to Todd,” says one source directly involved with the film. “And the one thing about genre stuff: If you don’t listen and pay attention to what the fan expectations are, you’re going to fail.”
Literally in the article. Also, had no idea Bradley Cooper was a producer for Joker 2019. Apparently he was keeping Phillips in line during that movie.
Both_Sherbert3394 on
>(A Warners spokesperson says, “Given the film contains spoilers, the studio did not want to unnecessarily divulge plot points too early to test audiences, but rather, allow moviegoers to discover the film in their own time.”)
28 Comments
Interesting tidbit:
> Sources say Zaslav met one-on-one with Phillips shortly after WarnerMedia and Discovery merged in April 2022 and was open to filming in Los Angeles if the director would make the sequel at a lower price point. (The studio preferred London, where it would have cost about 20% less.) But Phillips insisted on shooting in Los Angeles, and the budget didn’t change. (A Warners spokesperson says the studio “supported the decision to film in Los Angeles” and the Zaslav-Phillips powwow was merely a meet-and-greet where they discussed what else the director wanted to make there.) Insiders say studio brass did not want to debut the film at the Venice Film Festival, as it had done five years ago with “Joker,” but Phillips pushed back. A Warners spokesperson says the studio “fully supported the decision to bring the film to Venice.”
This Joker: Folie a Deux saga continues to be expanded.
Michael De Luca is a funny Schrodinger executive man. Every time he’s attached to something it’s always a 50/50 dice roll to both extremes. You either get Oscar-nominated Moneyball or Razzie nominee Ghost Rider 2. Or Fifty Shade/Under the Silver Lake. Or this year, a Shogun or Joker 2.
So Todd Phillips:
– pushed back on Gunn/Safran giving notes and would only liaise with De Luca and Abdy
– pushed back on shooting in a cheaper location
– refused to test screen the movie
– forced the Venice premiere
He legit got paid tens of millions, forced Warner to bend to his will in making an all-timer bomb then walked off into the sunset with his bag. Fucking wild lmao
The icing on top of this shit cake is Folie A Deux will likely wipe out all profit from Joker 1 on WB’s side. 2019 made like 430m+ in profit but was co-financed by Bron so half of that money walked away.
Didn’t Todd Phillips make $20M for directing this movie? Sure seems like a lot of money for someone who wants “nothing to do” with DC…
TL;DR: Todd Phillips ego is the reason why all of these happened.
They really want to make sure people don’t associate this with DC…despite using two of the most iconic DC villains ever lmao.
They’re really putting this all on Phillips. Which isn’t surprising and not really undeserved, but someone should have stepped in. Apparently WB will be eating most of the loss since they had fewer financial partners on this film compared to the previous filml, which isn’t great considering:
>Warner Bros. is already on the back foot following a series of recent money losers,including “Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga,” “Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom” and “The Color Purple.” The parent company’s stock price remains in the cellar, near an all-time low at $7.67 a share.
Edit: fewer backers compared to the previous film, not sequel
At this point, it might make sense for Zaslav to allow Gunn to delay Superman’s release into 2026 if he wants to maintain some distance from this film.
Let the Superman & Lois TV series finishes its run and possibly move the release of Creature Commandos into 2025.
It would also make sense to pay the IRS back for the tax write-offs to finish post-production on Batgirl and release it somehow to recoup the losses coming from Joker: Folie à Deux.
If those losses are substantially big, they might as well do releases for Scoob: Holiday Haunt and Coyote Vs. Acme to help in the recouping the money.
It would be a measure of good faith from Zaslav, De Luca, Abdy, Gunn, and Safran to everyone and essentially helping the DC reboot be a blank slate with the Batgirl release closing the lid on the DCEU.
*”…motion picture group chiefs Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy seemed unwilling to say no to their prized director with their **first** green light.”*
*”When asked by a Collider reporter if the production process changed when the pair **[Safran & Gunn]** succeeded DC head Walter Hamada or if they had any input, **Phillips** replied, “With all due respect to them, this is kind of a Warner Bros. movie.”*
*”Other battles of will between Phillips and Warners ensued. Phillips refused to test screen “Joker 2.” So its premiere in Venice marked the first time an audience saw it.”*
*“No one could get through to Todd,” says one source directly involved with the film. “And the one thing about genre stuff: If you don’t listen and pay attention to what the fan expectations are, you’re going to fail.”*
I feel like this article is confirming what ppl already picked up on. The director’s disdain for the property and him using the success of the first to bulldoze the second. But interesting to me, to note the hostility with Gunn and Safran along with the inexperience of the duo that signed off on this project.
Will this affect Todd Phillips’ career or will he get to skate on by?
“No one could get through to Todd,” says one source directly involved with the film. “And the one thing about genre stuff: If you don’t listen and pay attention to what the fan expectations are, you’re going to fail.
Mostly a hit piece of todd Phillips, to tie the blame of the disaster. The Venice decision seems to have conflicting reports because some say WB supported this too. It still ends up the same movie and if reviews came last week, same response gets out regardless.
Interesting how variety specifically calls out zaslav’s Kevin feige approach of the singular DC vision. Joker was always a solo thing so it feels weird to tie it to the studio wanting the Feige approach. The feige approach just wouldn’t do a deconstruction like the Joker series in the first place.
And so it begins. We’re already starting to see stories from the trades about how this disaster is all Todd Phillips’ fault.
I mean, it definitely is his fault – he’s the one who decided to make “Joker 2” what it is every step of the way – but I find it kind of funny how it’s only been a few days since “Joker 2” released, and the press is already starting to toss Todd under the bus.
Warner Brothers must want to distance themselves from this movie and its director as quickly as they can.
At this point Phillips’ career is almost certainly toast. Nobody is going to let him have a big budget ever again, especially with all these behind the scenes antics.
Article briefly mentions the lack of bradley cooper’s involvement. He ended his producing partnership with Phillips prior to Joker 2 but no reasons given
I’m not sure why his involvement would make a difference. Producer credits aren’t always about who is the most involved. But what an outcome where A Star is born ends up outgrossing a Joker sequel
This is the kind of outcome that likely ends a studio relationship. I’d be shocked if Philips makes more movies with WB. He only directed 3 movies in the last 10 years
They could’ve hired any of us to direct Joker for $5M. We can hire Joaquin and call it a day.
Todd Phillips is actually the funniest man alive actually for burning the profit the first film made and making WB more of a joke
WB to Todd.
https://i.redd.it/tenv8ysuyjtd1.gif
> As the animated title-card sequence unspooled inside the iconic Hollywood cinema in the opening minutes, it became apparent that Phillips had just given DC the middle finger. There was no DC Studios logo.
Is this true? That’s kinda wild.
They’d probably be better off remaking Batgirl at this point than paying back the write-off. Keep Keaton but cast Jenna Ortega as Batgirl and give Tim Burton whatever he wants to direct.
I’m more invested in the fall out from this movie than actually watching the movie itself lol
Todd Phillips acting like he’s some serious auteur is funny. Has he seen his own filmography?
I just want him to come out and say he hated the character he made so I don’t have to keep being gaslight about some kind of grand message behind it all.
I feel like a big problem with Hollywood in general right now is there seems to be this mentality that every movie either has to be a corporate product where they’re already animating 1/3 of it before they’ve even finalized a screenplay or chosen a director, or something where you just give out budgets to someone and let them do whatever the fuck they want with literally zero oversight or pushback. I have to imagine there’s *some* kind of middle ground here.
Y’all are smoking crack if you don’t think Todd Phillips will be able to make Todd Phillips type movies after this.
Why’d you have to rope Harley into it then
Not since Rian Johnson have we seen a director so obviously hate the franchise he’s in.
Guy took king of comedy and taxi driver and put joker over it for the 1st movie and with the luck of good word of mouth and the fact the movie was memed to death it became a surprise monster hit
Now he had the task of writing a sequel even better then the first and look what happened he can’t so he just like screw it nonsensical dance numbers and a ridiculous budget
Fuck the 1st one and people who loved the movie just let me cash my check and you can have this bloated turd 😂
To make it clear to everybody because I know some people might misinterpret the headline
> Insiders say the duo’s glaring absence for a film that is based on one of the biggest draws in the DC canon underscores a dysfunctional dynamic that played out behind the scenes on the ill-fated Warner Bros. musical. Todd Phillips “wanted nothing to do with DC” during the making of the film, says one agent familiar with the director’s unique carve-out, which allowed him to bypass any oversight from the brand’s gatekeepers. Although Gunn has publicly supported the film on social media, Phillips has distanced himself from DC. As the animated title-card sequence unspooled inside the iconic Hollywood cinema in the opening minutes, it became apparent that Phillips had just given DC the middle finger. There was no DC Studios logo.
It’s not that he wanted nothing to do *with the film*. He wanted to do the film. This is not a Matrix 4 scenario like people think. It’s that he didn’t want any oversight from anyone higher in DC
EDIT:
> “No one could get through to Todd,” says one source directly involved with the film. “And the one thing about genre stuff: If you don’t listen and pay attention to what the fan expectations are, you’re going to fail.”
Literally in the article. Also, had no idea Bradley Cooper was a producer for Joker 2019. Apparently he was keeping Phillips in line during that movie.
>(A Warners spokesperson says, “Given the film contains spoilers, the studio did not want to unnecessarily divulge plot points too early to test audiences, but rather, allow moviegoers to discover the film in their own time.”)
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
“The film containers spoilers [for itself] so we didn’t test screen it” is the funniest thing I’ve ever read.